How to use guest podcasting to attract more clients
Welcome back to Process to Profitability! In today's episode, we have a very special guest joining us. Natalie Koussa, a visibility coach and podcast guesting strategist, will be sharing her expertise on a different approach to using podcasts to bring in clients. Natalie's journey started by helping clients get booked on podcasts and it quickly became her main focus. Natalie believes that building trust between the host and listeners is vital, and she'll be diving into strategies for effective pitching, finding the right podcasts, and utilizing podcasts to generate leads and attract high-ticket clients. You won't want to miss this insightful conversation on leveraging the power of podcasts for business success. Let's get started!
Timestamps:
[00:02:04] Meet Natalie
[00:05:23] Why podcasting is great for lead generation, but not list building
[00:09:44] Is podcast guesting right for generating leads in your business?
[00:12:11] What you need to have in place before podcast guesting
[00:13:53] Podcast pitching mistakes to avoid
[00:18:11] Podcast guesting is a conversation with the host and the audience
[00:20:21] The results you can expect to see from podcast guesting
[00:23:08] Where to send people to connect at the end of the episode
[00:26:47] How to find the right podcasts to pitch
[00:31:53] Connect with Natalie
Key Topics:
Trust is the most important factor for a successful podcast, not rankings or downloads
Podcast guesting is great for lead generation and finding good-fit clients without a huge audience
Building a small, quality email list of interested buyers is more effective than quantity
Summits and bundles can bring results, but podcasts create deeper connections with listeners
Preparation and understanding the host and audience are key when pitching to be a guest
Speaking on podcasts can lead to increased email list sign-ups and direct messages
The ultimate measure of success is when listeners join the speaker's offers
Prioritizing connection over working with celebrity entrepreneurs can lead to more sales growth.
Resources:
[00:00:00] Samantha Mabe: On today's episode, I am talking with Natalie Koussa about podcast guesting, but it's not the way that you've probably heard this pitched before. We are talking about podcast guesting with the goal of bringing more clients into your one-on-one service or your high ticket group program. So we are leaving behind list building as the reason you want to podcast guest and really talking about how you can see real clients coming in.
[00:00:33] We cover lots of things, including what you need to do to be ready to be a guest on podcasts, what to avoid when you are pitching, and then we talk about how you can use that podcast to bring clients into your business and kind of the results you should expect to see from a podcast.
[00:00:54] I also asked Natalie her tips and advice for finding the right podcasts to reach out to. And it might surprise you to know that you are not having to reach for that top 1% of podcasts on iTunes. You're really looking for dedicated audiences who trust the host of the show, and when your goal is to bring in clients instead of build lists, that makes all of this so much easier, so much less stressful, and it can be a lot of fun.
[00:01:29] Natalie Koussa is a business coach and podcast guesting strategist who helps industry changemakers create their fully expressed, fully booked business. Natalie believes that your message is the life force of your business. It's the key that unlocks income and the impact you're here to create. She's the creator of the Luminous Mastermind and the Speakeasy, a group program that supports entrepreneurs to clarify their thought leadership message, pitch like a pro, and get booked on the podcast.
[00:01:58] Hi, Natalie. Thanks for joining me today.
[00:02:03] Natalie Koussa: Hi, Samantha. Thanks for having me.
Meet Natalie
[00:02:04] Samantha Mabe: I read your official bio at the beginning of the show, but can you tell us a little bit more about how you have gotten to where you are in your business and how you have made that journey?
[00:02:18] Natalie Koussa: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:02:20] So I got started in business. I used to be a director of partnerships for a nonprofit before I started my business. So it seemed very natural to me to start as a visibility coach because all my work was around developing partnerships, PR, all that good stuff.
[00:02:36] And as I got started, I noticed that people were saying to me, 'yeah, sure, but can you help me get booked on podcasts?' It was the only thing that anyone wanted me to help them with. And I was like, 'yeah, absolutely'. So I started doing that with some one-to-one clients and it's really snowballed from there.
[00:02:55] I've taught podcast guesting in a few different ways. I used to have VIP Days and then I got quite a few requests from people saying, 'could you do a group program? I'm not so into VIP Days, but I'd love to be in community and have your support over a longer period of time.'
[00:03:11] So the pod squad started as a pop-up offer, initially live teaching every week with a small group, and then it just snowballed from there. Next time it opens it'll be as the Speakeasy.
[00:03:24] And then I've always done sales throughout my career in lots of different ways. So I always wanted to teach sales and messaging 'cause that's, it's just what I'm really passionate about. But I promised myself that I'd sell a hundred K worth of services in my own business before to teach sales and messaging publicly. So again, that's what I did.
[00:03:48] So I now teach those two things. I do podcasting through the Speakeasy and I have a mastermind called Luminous which is really focused on creating a fully booked business through self-expression, sales, marketing, and intentional audience growth.
[00:04:05] Samantha Mabe: I love that you set that goal for yourself, that you were like, I want to make sure I've got my sales process down and that I can do this before teaching other people. I think we see a lot of coaches that jump into things and they haven't always done it themselves and it's really nice to know you have been there, you've gone through all the trials and the mindset stuff that comes with trying to do something big like that.
[00:04:34] Natalie Koussa: Yeah. Thank you. It was really important to me. It just felt really an integrity to make money first by doing something that wasn't selling 'make more money' and then support people with sales 'cause it's.
[00:04:46] The way that we sell online. Sure. There are some pretty timeless principles from, that you can pull in from offline, kinda the real world, but it's different as well. So I really wanted a good understanding of what does selling online feel like? Exactly. What are the mindset things that come up?
[00:05:05] And also, I wanted to try enough different strategies myself that I wasn't only teaching: here's my one way. I can share, I've tried this, it didn't work for me, but I think it's for these reasons. Why don't you try the same strategy, but in a slightly different way?
Why podcasting is great for lead generation, but not list building
[00:05:23] Samantha Mabe: Today we're talking specifically about podcast guesting, but really from the point of view of using podcast guesting, not just for visibility, but to get clients into your business.
[00:05:35] We all know that podcast guesting can get you more visible. It can get you in front of other people's audiences, but it's important then to actually translate that into revenue in your business or really as a tactic it's not very helpful.
[00:05:53] Natalie Koussa: Yeah, absolutely. So I see lots of people wanting to do podcast guesting for list building, and while podcast guesting, like of course it grows your credibility, it grows your visibility, all those good things. I actually don't think it's great for list building, but I do think it's great for lead generation.
[00:06:15] What I mean by that is what I see, so I've seen this in my own business and I also see it with my clients, is that there isn't a huge influx of people that come after every single interview and join your email list. The numbers are fairly small, but the people that do come and either join your email list or DM you on Instagram, or however you invite people to come into your world after the interview, the people that do come are so much more likely to buy from you.
[00:06:45] So what I'm seeing is that clients that speak on podcasts, they may only have a small bump in their email list, but they can directly tie low ticket and high-ticket sales to exact interviews that they've had on other people's podcasts. And that's what I mean.
[00:07:04] When we say we want to grow our visibility, generally what we mean is I want more clients. That's what people actually want. So I think podcast guesting is a brilliant way of skipping the whole, growing a huge audience list, and then nurturing them and then putting 'em through a funnel and all of that, which is a totally valid business model, but it's not a great one for podcast guesting to support.
[00:07:27] It skips all of that and takes people really much more directly from, I've heard you on an interview. I now feel like I know you because that was 30 minutes that I was listening to you. I understand how you think. I've got a feeling of who you are. Can I work with you? What are your offers? When can I join?
[00:07:47] So it's a, it really shortens the sales cycle in what I think is a really helpful way for most of us that don't wanna become a big internet celebrity. We just wanna do meaningful work with really good fit clients for us.
[00:08:02] Samantha Mabe: I would agree. I've seen the same thing in my business when I have people that listen to me on a guest podcast, they're like, ''oh I'm ready to hire you. It's not a big list bump.
[00:08:14] And I've talked to a lot of people that have been doing summits, and they will see their list grow a lot, but they won't see clients come from that. And so it feels like summits and podcasts should be similar, but you really do see very different results in what part of your business is growing with them.
[00:08:33] Natalie Koussa: Absolutely. I'd say summits are more like bundles. I'd put those two more together in terms of the results that you see in internally in your business. So yeah, massive list growth sometimes. But then what I see is it takes a lot longer for those people that join to become clients because I think there's so much distraction.
[00:08:53] If people find you on a summit, they've probably also listened to 10 other speakers, or they haven't had time to listen to you, and they've just opted in to your freebie so that they can get to know you later. In the same way as a bundles are often, unless they're really well curated, they're often in this kind of smash and grab type mentality.
[00:09:11] When somebody listens to you on a podcast they've had to opt in to listening to that episode. It's much more of an investment of time, and the chances are that they already trust the host. So then there's that transfer of trust that happens when they listen to, plus they get to actually hang out with you for a bit and like really get to know you and get a sense of whether or not they like your approach, get a sense of who you are in a way that it's much, much harder to do with summits or bundles.
[00:09:41] So yeah, I totally agree with that.
Is podcast guesting right for generating leads in your business?
[00:09:44] Samantha Mabe: If people listening are thinking, they haven't done a lot of podcast guessing and they want to get into it, how do they know if that's the right fit for them? If that is something that they should be pursuing?
[00:09:59] Natalie Koussa: Yeah, so the people that I see podcast guesting work really well for have an offer already inside their business that they know how to sell.
[00:10:08] So it, it's not impossible for it to work for you earlier on in your business, but the people that really hit the ground running come in, when they join the Speakeasy or when I start working with them, they say to me, 'I've got this one or two handful of offers that they're already selling. I just now would like to invite more people.'
[00:10:31] Partly they've got their sales process down, which is great, but it's also that they have enough expertise and they've worked with enough people that they have something really meaningful to share when they're speaking on podcasts.
[00:10:45] I've had people speak on one podcast. I've had people speak on five podcasts and then say to me, 'oh my God, this is great. I'm filling up my one-to-one offer.' And I've had people selling into high-end masterminds as well, from only a handful of podcasts.
[00:10:59] Samantha Mabe: That makes a lot of sense because when you've worked with somebody in your one-to-one service or your mastermind, you have an idea of what they're struggling with, what your messaging needs to be. You've got some examples you can pull from.
[00:11:15] And I think the more you do your service, you're not thrown when somebody asks you a question. When I guest on somebody's podcast, you can ask me anything. I will talk about websites all day. It doesn't matter what you throw at me because I've done so many of them that I've got some kind of answer for you.
[00:11:35] Natalie Koussa: Yeah. You've got the client experience to back you up, but you've also got concepts or processes or unique ways of looking at the thing that you do that make you stand out in the marketplace.
[00:11:47] Whereas when you're a bit earlier in your business journey, chances are you haven't developed those things well enough yet to be able to speak on podcasts and for people to truly understand what makes you unique.
[00:11:59] So why they'd want to choose Samantha as their web designer compared to the hundreds of other web designers I can find with a simple Instagram scroll.
[00:12:07] So it's that kind of real sweet spot that I see working really well for people.
What you need to have in place before podcast guesting
[00:12:11] Samantha Mabe: So if somebody's thinking they wanna pitch podcasts, what might they need to have prepared ahead of time? And then we can talk about what pitching actually looks like, what good pitching actually looks like.
[00:12:22] Natalie Koussa: Yeah. Yeah. So I think the one fundamental thing to have prepared ahead of time is what do you actually wanna talk about? And I know that sounds so simple, but people skip that step and then they panic and then they throw in something they think the host wants to hear, but it doesn't match with their expertise.
[00:12:40] So inside the Speakeasy, I call 'em core conversation topics, and the reason I call 'em core conversation topics instead of speaker topics is speaker topics I've found spin people out. Sometimes they think of speaking on podcasts as if they're giving a lecture or doing a webinar, and it's not that vibe at all, which is partly why it makes it so amazing.
[00:13:01] It's a conversation, right? Like it's exactly how you and I are speaking now, and the host is there to guide you through the conversation. So you don't need to know exactly minute by minute what it is that you're going to say. You just have to answer the question and then let the host ask you another one and respond. And really just let it be a conversation.
[00:13:23] So if people are really new to pitching, I think the one thing that you need to have in place is just have even just one core conversation topic.
[00:13:34] And to be a really good core conversation topic. It needs to bring together what you want to be known for, like what you want to talk about, with what you know your best fit clients need to hear from you. If you can combine those two things, brilliant. You've got a fab core conversation topic, and you're ready to get pitching.
Podcast pitching mistakes to avoid
[00:13:53] Samantha Mabe: All right. Awesome. So let's talk about how people can do some good pitches and maybe talk about the mistakes that you see. I think that is where we can really be more helpful is what is a bad pitch look like?
[00:14:09] Because I think that is what people don't understand is like we, podcasters get a lot of pitches and a lot of them are bad.
[00:14:19] Natalie Koussa: Yeah. I wonder if you wanna chip in with this as well, Samantha. It's probably really helpful for people to hear from your perspective, like the pitches that you receive and what makes them bad as well.
[00:14:28] Samantha Mabe: Sure. I would say the number one thing that I just delete it out of my inbox is if they do not know my name or the name of the podcast. I get a lot that are like, 'Hey there, we saw your podcast.' And they haven't done any of their research.
[00:14:43] And generally those are also topics that have nothing to do with my audience. I've gotten pitches about investing in real estate in Florida, and I'm like, 'that has nothing to do with the people that I'm talking to. It wouldn't help me. It wouldn't help you.'
[00:14:58] You can tell when somebody is sending the email just to check that they sent an email.
[00:15:04] Natalie Koussa: I think that happens when people do these challenges of send a hundred pitches in 30 days or whatever. I think that really makes you focus on a numbers approach, whereas I'd rather you send far fewer pitches and just make them really good. If you send three really good pitches, that's gonna do way more for your business than a hundred crappy ones.
[00:15:24] Things that you've said, like not knowing who the host is, not knowing what the podcast talks about, pitching the wrong subject, all of that.
[00:15:31] But then the really fundamental thing that I see people going, and it comes usually from such a good place, but is from people believing that the pitch is there to sell yourself. Like you have to convince the host why you'd be so brilliant. And what this leads to is people writing a pitch all about themselves, basically.
[00:15:51] What I teach, and if you'd take one thing away from this about pitching is, I think you should spend 80% of your energy and your focus talking to the host about their audience, about why your subject, what you wanna talk about is a brilliant fit for their audience, and only 20% on yourself.
[00:16:13] So the host doesn't wanna know, I'm an expert because of this and this, and here's where I was featured and this is why I'm so amazing. They just wanna know, will this be a great fit for my audience? So if you can show them that, then you're already onto a winner.
[00:16:29] One thing that I tell the people inside the Speakeasy is: imagine that as the host or whoever it is on their team that's reading this, is reading your pitch. You want them to be thinking straight away, 'oh God, yeah, I can even see the show notes now. This is gonna be a great conversation. I can see how much my audience are gonna love it', because then you're gonna get a yes. And then you can layer in some credibility and why you're the right person to talk about the subject.
[00:16:57] Samantha Mabe: I really like that. I think the other thing is in doing research on the show, I get a lot of emails, obviously. That's how people pitch a lot of stuff. But I actually have everybody fill out an application. So I don't mind if you send an email to say I filled out your application or follow up, but if you don't fill out the application, your pitch is just gonna get lost in my inbox when I go back to review everything.
[00:17:23] So I think it's important to look at what that person's process is to make sure you are getting your information in the right place.
[00:17:31] Natalie Koussa: Absolutely. And usually the best places to look are either on their websites. If they've got a podcast page, it quite often has a button at the top saying if you're interested in speaking, click here. Or in their contact form, there'll be a dropdown saying guest interview, or it'll say, if you would like to speak on my podcast, fill in this form.
[00:17:49] I'm sure that the websites you design have that really front and center. Not everybody's websites are that clear, but you should be able to see if you just spend a few minutes clicking round and seeing what you know, if they have a process there, and if they don't say one, then sure, send them an email. But if they have a process, follow it. Use their name. It's just the total basics, isn't it?
Podcast guesting is a conversation with the host and the audience
[00:18:11] Samantha Mabe: Yeah. Have you seen anything where you are seeing podcasters want to get away from kind of those core conversations or ask different questions instead of feeling like we're having the same interview on every podcast if somebody is going on multiple podcasts?
[00:18:30] Natalie Koussa: Yeah, I think there is a bit of that, but I also see that hosts tend to really like when people come with a strong point of view. And a strong core conversation topics anchor the interview and then sure, is a conversation and it can weave in and out and go in different directions. But having that core conversation topic, I think gives a lot of safety to the host that you know what you're talking about and that it's gonna be a really focused conversation.
[00:18:55] And it also creates a lot of safety for the guest. It can feel really vulnerable to go on a podcast, to know that it's gonna be out there. So really having a focus on something that you are genuinely an expert in and that you have a point of view on and that you love talking about can be a really solid anchor.
[00:19:16] And then sure, you can go wherever the conversation takes you, but I think it could be a really good starting point.
[00:19:22] Samantha Mabe: Yeah, I agree. I always appreciate if somebody is so much of an expert in what they're talking about, that if I throw in like an oddball question that we hadn't discussed ahead of time, they will just go with it. And yeah, we might have to edit out like a couple of ums and a pause, but as hosts, I think we don't want to just feel like we're going through the same list of questions everybody else is, because generally our audience is slightly different or the types of conversations we're trying to have can be a little bit different than just, ' give us your high level tips on this topic.'
[00:19:58] Natalie Koussa: Yeah, exactly. And I think if you have a core conversation topic that really supports you to talk about what you know, it becomes way easier to go deep and to have a more nuanced conversation or a conversation that really fits the listeners of that particular podcast instead of something more superficial or something that everybody's heard a million times before in, in different ways.
The results you can expect to see from podcast guesting
[00:20:21] Samantha Mabe: So if somebody has been on a podcast, kinda what can they expect to see afterwards and maybe how can they best take advantage of that opportunity?
[00:20:33] Natalie Koussa: Yeah, so I think what you can expect to see afterwards is a small bump in people joining your email list, a flurry of DMs on Instagram or LinkedIn, wherever you are, that if you've mentioned that the people will come and chat to you. They're like great metrics to show that people are connecting with what you're seeing, which is a brilliant first step.
[00:20:54] What I look for with my clients is sales so that they see people joining their offers and when they ask, how did you find out about me? The answer is, 'I heard you on such and such podcast.' That's the really true metric.
[00:21:09] And for some people that doesn't happen immediately. For some people, it takes a few months to really get into the swing of things, but I do want it to happen. Like that's, to me, the ultimate sign of success.
[00:21:20] For some people it really does happen almost immediately. As we've said, that tends to be if you're a little bit more experienced or if you already have good messaging throughout your business and a good sales process throughout your business.
[00:21:35] Speaking on podcasts is only ever gonna be the first step of somebody coming to find you. And if that person, if the listener, has a really quick decision making and high risk buying personality, then it can be all they need. I've certainly heard of that happening. People just get DMs and say, 'I've heard you on this podcast. I'm ready to hire you.'
[00:21:56] But if listeners have like a lower risk tolerance for buying, or they're slower decision makers, they'll want to connect in to your emails or follow you on Instagram and see more from you before they buy. So if they're that kind of listener, your sales process has got to really be on point to bring them into your offers.
[00:22:18] Samantha Mabe: And podcasting can last such a long time. So I think we need to remember that even if we're not seeing it right away, it could be because our buyers just need more time. But it could be people are gonna listen to that podcast months or years from now when they're going back through somebody's bank of episodes.
[00:22:38] Natalie Koussa: Yeah, for sure. To you, that podcast is old. Say it was published a year ago and you're like, 'oh yeah, I can even hardly remember that conversation.' But if somebody is just discovering that episode for the first time, to them it's brand new.
[00:22:50] Especially since Google has started ranking podcasts right at the top of searches, it's one of the reasons that speaking on other people's podcasts is so powerful that you do the work once and it truly is evergreen. People can discover that episode in a year's time, two years time.
Where to send people to connect at the end of the episode
[00:23:08] Samantha Mabe: Have you seen anything that's working particularly well, or maybe that's not working as far as where you're sending people at the end of an episode?
[00:23:19] Natalie Koussa: Yeah, so one of the things that I've started doing recently, and I've been helping my clients with that I'm seeing working, is I know most people offer a freebie at the end of the episode. I'm encouraging people to not offer a freebie and to simply, so I say, 'Join the waitlist for the Speakeasy or Luminous', or you could just talk about your email list and share what's in them, why they're so great, who they're for. And again, you're gonna get fewer people that join that way.
[00:23:48] If you do offer a freebie, you'll get more people joining your email list, but the how interested people are is so much higher if they join in just for the waitlist or for your emails instead of getting something from you straight away. So that's something that I'm really encouraging people to do.
[00:24:09] Samantha Mabe: That makes a lot of sense. You're starting them off in that sales process already. You're saying join the waitlist for this program so they know specifically what they will hear about instead of a freebie that they may never use, and then they're on your email list, but it doesn't have that sales purpose from the very beginning.
[00:24:29] Natalie Koussa: Yeah, and it's what we were saying before. Do you want this big email list with lots of people, whereas only some of them are interested in buying from you? You can expect one to 2% conversion is the stat that gets shared.
[00:24:43] Whereas if you have a different business model, like for you, Samantha, there's only so many websites you can build in a year or only so many websites you want to build in a year, or for me that my groups are pretty intimate. I don't want hundreds of people joining at a time.
[00:24:57] If you just prioritize only speaking to the people that actually would like to buy from you, then you don't need this massive email list. You can have a really tiny email list, but the people that are on your email list are there because they're waiting for doors to open to the program that you mentioned in your podcast interview, or they want to learn from you, or they want you to build their website or create their systems or, whatever it is that you specialize in with your business. I just think it's such a, it's such an intimate and fun and easygoing way to do business.
[00:25:32] Samantha Mabe: I love guest podcasting and podcasting in general because it's so conversational. You're building relationships with the people listening and with the host, and like it is a way to show that you're an expert and feel like you are really giving value to somebody.
[00:25:48] Natalie Koussa: The other thing is that most of us started our business like, sure, we want to make money and we need to earn, earn a living out of our businesses. Of course we do. But more than that, most of us start our business because we really want to contribute and create some impact and help people.
[00:26:06] And I think speaking on podcasts is a brilliant way to share your message. So like somebody listening to this podcast could use what they're hearing, understand whether or not podcast guesting is a good fit for them, really know what kind of metrics or what to expect from podcast guesting. And that's really valuable. That's completely free. They've spent half an hour listening to it, and then maybe they'll go ahead and use podcast guesting in their own business.
[00:26:30] And to me that feels amazing. That's an impact that I'm having way beyond the number of people that actually go on to pay me and work with me as clients, and it's the same for my clients. That's the kind of impact that ripples.
How to find the right podcasts to pitch
[00:26:47] Samantha Mabe: If somebody is listening and they're excited about this, they've got all these pieces together, do you have any quick tips on finding the right podcasts to be on? If we should be going for like those top of the charts ones or new podcasts?
[00:27:01] Natalie Koussa: Yeah, so I think the number one PR criteria, the number one thing that matters is the amount of trust there is. That matters so, so much more than iTunes ranking or like a big, massive, million downloads podcast, which is often where I see people aiming. They're like, 'I wanna be on Jenna Kutcher's podcast.' And that could be an amazing fit for you if you are best fit clients really trust that host. But if they don't, it's a bit of a wasted opportunity.
[00:27:36] So it can be hard to tell, right? Like how much trust there is between listeners and the host. But the kinds of things to be looking for are if they have a social media following, how do people interact with them? Do people comment? Do they seem to really know and trust the host? Are people sharing the podcast? What's the host's reputation like in kind of circles of people that you know?
[00:28:02] And then another way to know is, you and I, Samantha, we know each other through a program that we did together, and that can be a really good way of speaking on somebody else's podcast because the chances are that lots of your listeners also know you in that way and probably know who I am in that way. So there's already some of that trust there. So it's like this layered approach.
[00:28:26] I could be a brand new name to people on your podcast. That's really valuable as well. But it's likely that lots of your listeners have already heard of me. So there's already at least like a little bit of trust there and then this can build.
[00:28:38] So that's the main way that I tell my clients to really prioritize layers of trust in your own network, but also the trust that you think you can see between the host and their listeners.
[00:28:53] Samantha Mabe: That's great advice. I found that a lot of times those smaller podcasts have much loyal listeners. They're much more engaged and they are much more likely to take the guest and actually interact with them. I think because they have chosen somebody who is more on their level, like they're seeing this business is a couple steps ahead of me, not like the million dollar business that I might want in the future. And we attract those similar types of people.
[00:29:25] So I always tell people like, if you're going to guest, you don't need to reach for the stars. Just start with the people in your network and then go out from there. But you don't have to be on the biggest name podcast to see results, especially if we're looking to bring in clients and not just build our list.
[00:29:43] Natalie Koussa: Yeah, totally. And industry is changing. People really wanted to work with celebrity entrepreneurs and somebody that was very shiny and had a million or multimillion dollar business.
[00:29:57] But I think things are really changing now that actually what clients want is connection. They want to feel seen, they want to know that they're gonna get personalized feedback, even if it's in a group setting. They want to know that you really take care to get to know them and their business.. Not just that you are churning out a hundred websites a year using this one template that you do for everybody.
[00:30:21] That kind of shift in the industry that we're seeing towards people really prioritizing connection really speaks to exactly what you are just saying, that you don't need to go on like the top 1% podcast in your industry. What would probably be way more impactful for your business is to speak on five or 10 kind of middling podcasts.
[00:30:41] You want them to have listeners. You probably don't want to go on really brand new podcasts. Wait until they've developed a bit of confidence and a bit of connection with their community. But if you speak on five or 10 podcasts that really have a really solid listenership and a lot of trust with the people that listen to them, you'll see so much more of a growth in your own business in terms of sales than you will if you speak on one really popular big name podcast.
[00:31:13] Samantha Mabe: Awesome. Thank you so much. I think this is really helpful. It's a good way to look at this as a strategy for client growth and not necessarily list growth. And I think when we go into it with that attitude, we're gonna feel like we have a whole lot more success and feel more confident going, I do know what I'm talking about, and if I can just reach one or two people, then I have made this worthwhile.
[00:31:39] Natalie Koussa: Yeah, absolutely. And see those clients coming in. I'd much rather get one or two clients from speaking on podcasts than a hundred new subscribers and no clients. That's totally what I want and the people I work with want.
Connect with Natalie
[00:31:53] Samantha Mabe: So where can people find you online and connect with you and maybe find out about the Speakeasy when that's opening up?
[00:32:02] Natalie Koussa: Yeah, so I'm gonna practice what I'm preaching. There's no freebie on offer, but what is on offer: really good emails and, an opportunity to find out more about working with me.
[00:32:11] So my website is nataliekoussa.com. You can join the waitlist there for the Speakeasy. It'll be opening again the fall. You can join the waitlist for Luminous, which is my sales and messaging mastermind, or you can just join Neon Notes, which is my weekly email series that I send out.
[00:32:32] Samantha Mabe: Thank you so much for coming on the show and I'm excited for people to connect and learn more.
